Request Critique on My Shipyard Build

captsully18 · July 2014

John, like Ken said no expert advice here. Just what I would do. I'd go back over all sheets with a medium to dark cedar color, then weather from there. Cedar shingles are rather dark when new and then lighten with age. Not to mention the weather effect. Take it or leave it, I am no expert and know it. Just my humble opinion.

The dormers look fantastic. Great work.

Dave

admin · July 2014

Yup... gotta agree with Ken, more brown, less grey on the shingles. Wonderful coloration of the structure, looking good!

Ojaste · July 2014

John,

Dormers done and dusted. Check!

I never get the shingles the right colour the first time. It sometimes it takes three or four tries to get it perfect for the structure. What makes it tough is trying to imagine what the roof will look like when all the strips are randomized.

BTW :Don't forget to colour the edges of the roof card stock before you shingle.

Marty

silveradonorthern · July 2014

Hi John,
I'm coming in really late to party. I just read through all 17 pages of your project. I'm very impressed with how this build has unfolded. You've asked for help and advise and gotten it from a great group of modelers. This in its self makes me fell good. I managed two different hobby shops spanning about 17 years and it was people such as you that really 'made' my day. This was back before forums such as this and digital cameras existed. Helping my customers out and watching how some really blossomed into Master Modelers was what made some of the not so nice parts of the job tolerable.

I'll offer up a suggestion for what it worth. If you don't already have one go to your local art supply store and pick up a "Kneadable Eraser." They are great for removing or toning down chalk. Just another tool in the arsenal.

Since I build in 1/48 scale I don't pay as much attention to the HO stuff but from here on out I will continue to follow your thread. There is some really great information being brought forward.

Thanks for sharing your work with all of us.
Michael

JohnM · July 2014

Michael, I have been ogling over your Mill Engine and wishing you had been posting more. My thread has been long because my progress steps are tiny, especially with a lot of time on the road - earning beer money to send to Brett for kits . . . . How exciting to have worked in your hobby. Certainly that makes you an excellent judge. I can further understand you being a minimalist type poster with that background but sincerely hope we can all motivate you to add to your excellent contributions. Your work is so extraordinary that it looks really real!

I have an excellent plus art store, I need some additional Rembrandt's and have noted the kneadable eraser - thank you . . . .

Can you give us links to other places you have posted? I'd really like to see more of what you have done.
Respectfully,
John

JohnM · July 2014

Marty, Brett, Dave, Ken, you reinforce my sense of coloring screw up on the shingles. I feel like I am following the instructions but can plainly see the results are not what the rest of you get. It seems like the coverage is incomplete because my brush is too small when I dab, but I tried several sizes. It seems like the most recently added color is the only one, rather than building one on the previous and seeing them all. Thank you all for reinforcing my sense that I am missing the mark. I need to look around and try to add the experience of the rest of you to whatever it is I am missing. I'm still on the road until weekend.
Respectfully
John

silveradonorthern · July 2014

John,
Thanks looking in on my mill engine project and for the kind words.

You wrote: Can you give us links to other places you have posted? I'd really like to see more of what you have done.
Respectfully,

I don't feel it is good form to post links to other forums even though most of us inhabit two or three different ones. I will put a few links together and send them to you in a PM

Michael

JohnM · July 2014

Michael, (also my middle name) yes, if you have the time to forward links to me I would very much appreciate it - w1cdo@me.com - would do it.

I'm really pleased you are looking in and thank you for doing so. I am home now for the better part of a couple of weeks and want to get to work on my shingling.

Respectfully,
John

JohnM · July 2014

Au secours . . . I need help!

I am totally screwing up the roof shingles. First of all, the very first thing Brett has us do way back page 1 step 1, so to speak, is seal the shingle paper with a paint spray and then set it aside - done as instructed.

At the present stage I should sprinkle some 408.3 on the shingles and dab with a wet AI brush,followed with some white. I did the 408.3 but it dries so quickly that I had to wet the brush again for the white and the whole thing ended up looking very grey. Please observe by looking back at the photos a few posts ago for that process and see how spotty the coloring was. The base color of the paper was predominant. That was my sense and your comments said the same.

Today I tried to get a 408.3 base coat on to cover the paper color. I think I did that but feel like my color agenda is now completely out of control. You all talk about tailoring your color appearance to achieve a desired effect but in my case the tail is wagging the dog . . .

This picture was taken outside on the shady side of the house to try to put it in natural light.

Maybe I should go back to radio for a hobby! May I please have suggestions on how to deal with this? My AI dries so fast that it is not possible to dab a 408.3 in place then follow with a sprinkle of white or grey. By the time I begin to shred a second color the first is dry and the new color does not remain in place.

Today I felt like the major objective was to hide the color of the underlying paper. I think I did that, but feel like I just have a muddy brown and grey mess.

May I please have comments if any of you have the time & patience.

Respectfully,
Muddy John

Ojaste · July 2014

John, take a stiff brush (scrub brush) dip it into straight alcohol and draw it down across the rows of shingles. Do it in only one direction. This will wash some of the chalk off and create stripes that will look the grain. Try this on one sheet and let it dry. You may have to repeat it a few times. The aim is to make breaks in the colour that will tone down the muddiness.

I have a spray nozzle on my alcohol bottle and have held the sheet up vertically and just sprayed the sheet to cause the chalk to run. Letting it dry and then repeat.

In this game it all about trying something on a sample or test run ( or in IT lingo alpha, beta and UAT Testing.) small steps leaning and adapting after each test or step. The key is to keep trying without loosing your cool (experience talking here LOL)

John key on plugging on. Remember my Fuel Depot roofing episode? Great things can come out of the challenge we have,

Enough "pep talk".

Marty

(Maybe some one who has shingles to colour can Skype with you to see how they do it.)

silveradonorthern · July 2014

John, I have no idea what Brett says to do, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. I think Marty offers a possible solution. My concern is how much scrubbing the paper shingles can take. If it is an option I'd start with a clean slate by re-spraying the sheets. When applying the A/I you maybe working in to large an area at one time. My own approach would be to work with the brown color(s) first, moving the chalk around then setting it with the A/I. I'd go for a streaked effect running up and down the sheet (not across.) I'd work on all the sheets trying for some uniformity across all sheets. When you are happy start working in the white or greys in the same streaking fashion. Go easy here. Better to start off light and build up. If the A/I is darkening things up too much use just alcohol. When you have all the sheets done they should have roughly the same tonal value. Your current shingle sheets to my eye are way to different. By creating color streaks on the full sheet and then when applied to the roof the streaks disappear and give a random color to the shingle. Hope this makes sense.

Michael

MikeM · July 2014

Forgive me if I've missed something or am stating the obvious or otherwise bringing up something that makes no practical difference, but what type of alcohol are you using and what strength? Would an alcohol that is a 70% alcohol/30% water cause a noticeably different result than one that is 99% pure alcohol?

Mike (there seem to be a lot of us...)

admin · July 2014

Call me John...

JohnM · July 2014

Marty, Michael, Mike & Brett, thank you for your positive input. Accordingly, I have corrective measures under way. As an experiment, I turned one of the shingle sheets over and on the back side did some practice treatments to try to lighten my application. More to follow.

Respectfully,
John

brownbr · July 2014

Glad to hear you may have a solution. Good luck

Ojaste · August 2014

One method I like for nail holes is a mechanical pencil. This one is a .005 lead. You can get a .003 but I see no need.

pump out about 1/8" of the lead and use an emory board or some fine grit sand paper to get a needle point. A couple of light swipes while rotating the pencil will get you there.

No real need to explain what to do next....

I like this method because it's a one shot deal, done near the end of finishing the wall.
It gives you the hole, it's pre-coloured (because of the graphite dust from the sanding) , it gives a nice clean sharp definition, ie: there is no 'ring' or smudge from adding a drop of A&I to each hole.

I use it extensively in O scale, it will need re-sharpening more often for HO to keep a finer point, and also obviously less pressure. try it out on some scraps to see if you like the idea.

Every 20 or so nails you will need a quick swipe to re-sharpen the point but I find it much easier than using a pin and then carefully applying A&I to each nail....

Karl.A

Karl,

I was thinking that if you used a Red, Brown or Orange lead (http://www.pentel.com/store/8-colour-pencil-refill) instead of the black, you could have rusty nail holes.

Just a thought.

Marty

Karl.A · August 2014

I originally tried red Marty but it was too bright. Some time ago I found some brown leads but I haven't used them yet.

Karl.A

JohnM · August 2014

At Karl's suggestion I used the mechanical pencil for my nail holes and was satisfied with the results.

I am still struggling with roof color.Brett sent me a few more shingles and I also turned my existing pieces over and sprayed them with earth color to start over.

I am trying to obtain an appearance similar to what Brett has in the web site roof as seen below.

I can not duplicate this. If I use the 408.3 first as suggested, as soon as I add white the two mix and I end up with a muddy brown. The only way I can end up with some weathered grey appearance is to omit 408.3.

I can not get the uniform appearance his grey/white has in the picture above. When I dab as instructed I get dabs, not his nice uniform appearance. When I put 408.3 into the mix it ends up far different than his photo.

You can see my dabbing effect in the picture above. I tried dry brushing with hard firm pushes on the brush after it dried and was able to smear out the dabs. Bottom line is I am "just not getting it".

I opted to begin shingling with what I have thinking if I end up enlightened the part I have begun might blend in to the rest.

You'll never imagine that small amount of progress was six hours of effort.

Now it's Happy Hour . . .

Respectfully,
John

admin · August 2014

I think you are heading in the right direction John. My smudges are more feathered by using more chalk and alcohol on my brush with the paint. (more, not so much that the brush is saturated or even wet, just damp) Your smudges have crisper edges than mine.

Ojaste · August 2014

John,

It's a row by row process. It will appear to look messed up, but when more rows get applied the roof will look great. When I finished the shingling I took a large blending brush (like they use for make-up) and smoothed out the roof colours to eliminate the hard edges

I know it will look great when you are done.

Marty

JohnM · August 2014

Thanks Brett & Marty. Back at it . . .

brownbr · August 2014

I think you will get the look you are going for.

JohnM · August 2014

Another session all day ending at Happy Hour. Today proves that in spite of the best talent coaching me they still could not spin me up to below average - I believe I am untrainable when it comes to coloring.

I think the picture makes it look worse than it does to my eye but the fact remains I looked at Brett's picture, tried to heed his verbal and written advice and so far am unable to even approach, never mind duplicate, his coloring. Its not easy being sub-standard, and it also creates a lot of extra work!

The good news is I am by the worst of fitting around the dormers. That part worked OK and my shingle to flashing fit worked out to my satisfaction.

Respectfully,
John

Ojaste · August 2014

John, keep on plodding along you will get there soon.

KKarns · August 2014

Hi John, You're too hard on yourself...to me your colors, other than the very white, look splendid. I would darken up the very lightest areas. My opinion here...if you look at your top image, to the very lower left of the right dormer, as you're looking at the photo, looks great! nice blend of subtile color, good transition between colors and some subtile light color added as is shown as it goes up around the left side of the same dormer. That "strip" to the left of that dormer is really good....

JohnM · August 2014

Thanks Marty, Thanks Ken. Perhaps I need to finish the entire roof and then go back in with the chalks. I found it has enough texture that I could dry brush color on and it stayed. I am afraid to use AI for fear of muddying it up.

I just left town today, the 10th and will be on the road for a week. I want to earn a little beer money and have some left over for more kits . . .

Respectfully,
John

Wes · August 2014

Like the others have said John. Your headed in the right direction.

I also think finishing the roof first(including vents, cowls etc) then doing the weathering is a better idea.

Keep up the good work.

captsully18 · August 2014

John, I also think you have a good start on shingles. Just take a step back, look at 'em, and dust on another color. The layering, then blending will work out. I know. I had very similar problems with Scotia and I did just what I say here. It will work. I would suggest that you continue with the shingling process and then blend all together at one time......maybe? Hey, after all I'm just a rookie.

Dave

JohnM · August 2014

Wes, thank you for joining in here. I am pleased to see you and thank you for your comment. I believe I can see the wisdom of playing with the chalks after the roof is complete.
Dave, thanks. When I get home it should just be a days task to complete that side of the roof. I experimented with stiffly dry brushing and was pleased to see I could spread the strong existing white and also add 408.3 and others and have them stick.

I am appreciative of all comments. All the same, it was frustrating to look at Brett's rendition and not be able to even come close!

Respectfully,
John

admin · August 2014

John - your attitude stinks buddy! Stay positive about your modeling abilities and stop all the negativity. Stop over-thinking every step and process. Relax and enjoy! Your doing a great job. So far, your structure looks awesome. I have been modeling dioramas for over 35 years. You are comparing your first dio to my 1000th and mine in addition is a completed model. Tough to do. You are a new modeler. This is a learning experience you will build upon and grow with if you stay positive and stick with it. You are getting good advice and encouragement here from the community. Call if you need help.

Howdy, Stranger!

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Request Critique on My Shipyard Build

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